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Are Grains and Dairy “Paleo”?

Sally Fallon says yes

Fat, sick and tired people are turning away from modern, industrialized food and going “Paleo.” They’re seeing drastic results by cutting out highly processed “foods” and eating only the foods they perceive our Paleolithic ancestors would’ve eaten, which excludes dairy, grains, legumes, potatoes and salt.

Only one problem, says Founder of the Weston A. Price Foundation Sally Fallon, Paleolithic people did eat dairy, grains, legumes, potatoes and salt, and they were vitally important parts of their diet.

In a recent interview on Food Riot Radio, Fallon said the modern Paleo Diet’s emphasis on “lean” protein combined with the lack of dairy and carbohydrates – which the body converts to saturated fat – is “a recipe for serious illness” in the

long run.

Fallon’s organization promotes a diet based on the findings of Dr. Weston A. Price, a dentist who traveled the globe in the 1920s and 30s studying the diets of isolated, healthy, primitive populations. He concluded that humans achieve “perfect physical form and perfect health generation after generation when they consume nutrient-dense, whole foods and the vital fat-soluble activators found exclusively in animal fats.”

What did Paleolithic people really eat?

“The Paleo diet is based on an erroneous supposition, which is that Paleolithic people’s didn’t eat grains, and nothing could be further from the truth,” Fallon said.

Defining them as people who did not have metal, Fallon said there are many examples of Paleolithic people who ate grains. She started with the North American Indians, whom she said arrived on the continent at least 30,000 years ago.

“The basis of the California Indian diet was wild grains,” she said. They figured out how to cultivate these wild grains, gather them using special baskets, grind them using stones, and it was a very important part of their diet.”

In the northern part of North America, Paleolithic natives ate wild rice, and in the South and on the East Coast, they ate corn, Fallon said. In Africa, they grew and tended sorghum and in Australia, Aborigines ate wild millet.

But the chemically hybridized, synthetically fertilized and highly industrialized wheat and corn of today hardly resemble the grains our ancient ancestors ate. In addition to growing in the wild – or at least being cultivated naturally – grains were prepared in such a way that made them digestible and released the maximum amount of nutrients.

cornvarieties

Traditional methods of grain preparation included soaking, sprouting and souring.

“The aboriginal people put the grains in leeching baskets and let the streams run through them for two weeks,” Fallon said. “The Cherokees made Cherokee bread, which was cooked corn meal, wrapped in a corn husk and put aside for two weeks to let it ferment. In Southern Mexico they cooked the corn, wrapped it in banana leaves and put it aside for two weeks. It was called Pozole. The Africans made sorghum beer, which is extremely sour, definitely an acquired taste, but a staple in their diet.”

Fallon said it is also a myth that Paleolithic people did not have tubers, legumes or salt.

“South Americans had potatoes called wapato that grew in swampy areas, and they gathered them with their feet,” Fallon said. The aboriginal people had legumes that were quite toxic unless prepared with these methods. Take the South Seas – we had lots of Paleolithic people down there. Sweet potatoes and cassava were staples in the diet. Same in Africa.”

And all human beings, throughout history, have had salt, Fallon said. “It was the earliest form of trade. They got it from salt flats, evaporated sea water, mines, salt pits.”

“You’ll kill yourself on a no salt diet,” she added. “It’s the basis of cellular metabolism.”

Dairy

cow pic

Fallon said humans have been eating dairy for at least 30,000 years as well, and that “any anthropologist you talk to will tell you the groups that had dairy had an evolutionary advantage.”

They were taller, stronger, healthier and more robust, she said. “So why would you not do dairy?”

Fallon said she agrees with the Paleo crowd that “modern dairy makes people sick,” but says unpasteurized, unhomogenized, grass-fed dairy is a “complete, perfect food.”

“I think a lot of people in the Paleo diet movement are young, don’t have families, don’t have children growing up, and I can tell you there is nothing so comforting to a mother as to have raw

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milk in the fridge to give to her child.”

She calls it an “insurance policy” for children because it “makes up for so many other things that are wrong with the modern diet.”

She says it is possible for Paleo dieters to get all the nutrition they need without dairy, but it requires going to great – and potentially undesirable – lengths.

“Do you want to be making bone broth all the time?” she asked. “The North American Indians that didn’t have milk actually never drank water. They always drank bone broth to get their calcium. Do you want to be like the Eskimos and eat fermented fish, where the bones have gotten soft? That’s how they got their calcium.”

Mark Sisson, author of Mark’s Daily Apple and several books on the “Primal Diet” (similar to the Paleo Diet), says he’s undecided on raw milk.

He cites Paleo guru Loren Cordain’s concerns about cancer as well as his own about lactose intolerance, casein intolerance and insulin spikes as potential reasons to avoid dairy.

Fallon insists that none of these issues should persist as long as the milk is raw and “has got all the fat in it” to slow the sugar absorption.

The real problem

Fallon said she “certainly understands” why people want to cut out grains and diary, and why for short periods of time they feel much better by doing so, but for the long run, she doesn’t think it is the “optimal diet.”

The real problem with grains and dairy, she said, is that people’s guts are damaged.

“We now have the third generation of children growing up on a modern diets – low cholesterol, low saturated fats – and their guts are not being formed properly, so they can’t digest grains,” she said. “And of course we’re not preparing the grains properly, so all of a sudden grains have become a huge problem.”

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t eat grains, she said. “It just means we should eat properly when we’re pregnant and nursing, feed babies properly as they grow, and introduce grains slowly and prepared properly.”

Fallon acknowledges that for many people, it’s too late for that. That’s where the GAPS – Gut and Psychology Syndrome – Diet comes in. Fallon says GAPS gets people off all of the “offending foods,” which include grains and dairy, and puts people on a diet similar to the Paleo Diet – only with much more of a focus on saturated fats, cod liver oil and bone broth – until the gut is healed. “It’s never meant to be forever without grains or dairy.”

Fallon said fellow WAP board member, Dr. Thomas Cowan, puts a lot of his patients on the GAPS Diet.

“He finds that in many cases people feel a lot better until something changes around the two-year mark when they suddenly lose energy, and that’s when he puts them back on grains,” she said. “So it seems to me that there’s something we don’t know about grains that makes them necessary for the human diet.”

“A very good argument against this no grain diet is that we have a stomach that has enterocytes that produce disaccharidase to digest carbohydrates,” Fallon added. “Our whole small intestine is designed to digest grains and potatoes and tubers and so forth. Now if that breaks down you have to stop eating them for a while. But the design of the human body is to eat these things.”

Like dairy, Fallon says you can live without grains, “but why would you want to?” By soaking grains, you get a huge increase in B vitamins, she said. You can get enough vitamin B by eating liver and organ meats, “but you don’t always have liver, and no one wants to eat liver every day.”

Grains are also a readily available source of minerals, which are liberated during the soaking process, and saturated fat, she said.

Fat, fat, fat

Paleo diet supporters argue that mankind has been eating grain for only the last 10,000 years – since the advent of agriculture – which represents less than 1 percent of the 2.5 million years they believe human beings have existed.

If human beings have gone without grain for more than 99 percent of their existence, why is it necessary or helpful to consume them now, one Food Riot Radio listener asked.

Fallon said she believed humans had been eating grains for at least 30,000 years, but even if they hadn’t, “so, what?” It’s unclear how far grain, tuber and dairy consumption dates back, but Paleolithic people – again, defined as those who didn’t have metal – all over the world thrived on them.

“The key thing in human nutrition is to get adequate saturated fats,” Fallon said. “Every cell in our bodies is surrounded by a membrane composed mostly of saturated fats. Our brains are mostly saturated fat.”

Because it’s not always possible to get enough saturated fat from meat, grain is – and almost always has been – an important supplement for most human beings, she said.

“And I must say that the Paleo diet – which does not emphasize saturated fats, with mostly lean meats, no grains and no potatoes – is just a recipe for serious illness if you stay on it too long.”

To hear Food Riot Radio’s full interview with Sally Fallon, click here.

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61 comments
Ed_
Ed_

North American Indians hit California something like 11k years ago, nowhere near 30k years ago. On their way there, they ate large game into extinction. If -- if! -- grains were the BASIS of their diet, it was only because that was a fallback food after extinguishing large game. In any case, how many people reading this are descendants of native California Indians? WTF Sally, you're seriously losing credibility here...

Susanlimbaugh
Susanlimbaugh

Ann, I don't think that the "war on" grains is ill conceived. I think we all agree that the way grains are produced now, with modern agriculture are not very good for us. In the article she sites grains that were not produced in this way. Where can we get wild grains, or grains that were farmed the way they were 30-40K years ago? We can't. Also she recommended them as a source of fat, which is inaccurate, and also said the Paleo diet stresses low fat. The true Paleo diet doesn't stress low fat, and I think someone  earlier mentioned that sometimes the diet is marketed that way, just to appease dieters in this country. I'm wondering if some of the controversy that we're all having here has something to do with people who are healthy verses people with an illness. I have MS, and follow the diet strictly based on the recommendations of Terry Wahls MD, a doctor who reversed her secondary progressive MS with the Paleo diet. Trust me,  I'm dying to eat grains, but based on her experience and the GAPs diet (developed by a Russian physician who reversed her child's autism), I pretty much stick to it because I have hopes for my own health. Also, what about the data that shows that eating a lot of carbohydrates promotes gut dysbiosis and increases the likelihood of leaky gut? 

I also just want to say that I am totally open to what other people have to say. The data is so conflicting, but I disagree that cutting out "huge swathes" of food only limits you. For some people, cutting out huge swathes of food may be saving us. It's a shame this article/or interview was so poorly done, with a lot of contradictory, confusing, and incorrect information. It's stirred up so much controversy among us. Also, I just want to say that I feel that I get plenty of nutrition. Dr. Wahls recommends eating 9 cups of vegetables and fruits (mostly vegetables - the fruit, mostly berries). It's not easy, and I have to juice daily in order to do it. There are plenty of things I would LOVE to eat, but when you're sick, or if your child is sick, you'll likely do a lot of research and I bet come up with the Paleo or GAPs diet as the diet you'll choose. Best to everyone. Susan

fitnesskelly
fitnesskelly

I don't understand why she would step on the feet of the Paleo community when she knows that a lot of Paleo people are big fans of WAP and follow many of WAP's recommendations in addition to Paleo. Further, many Paleo people work in unison with WAPers and now she's pitting us against each other.

EugeniaL
EugeniaL

I'm willing to eat anything, including good dairy and properly-prepared legumes (particularly lentils, which are less offending when fermented), but I will not put in my mouth glutenous grains. Not even if they were "properly prepared". Not even if we were to use ancient varieties of wheat. I do white rice one a month, since it's the least offending grain. Non-GMO corn too, if I have nothing else to eat around (rarely). But wheat/barley/rye (and contaminated oats), I wouldn't put them in my mouth no matter what Mrs Fallon says (and I did buy her fermentation book), or even if you pay me huge amounts of money. Grains are not human food. IF our Paleolithic ancestors ate wheat, it was probably on famine times. And right now, after having spent 39 years of grain abuse in the modern diet (that destroyed my body), I can't EVER have grains/gluten again. There's an accumulative effect that Mrs Fallon doesn't take into account here. Modern people living today (after 3-5 generations of terrible gut flora, gotten from sick mothers passed onto their children), we can't simply "reduce our grain intake and ferment our bread". To get better, we'll have to cut it out completely, forever. Mrs Fallon's suggestion could hold water if she was talking for clean-cut born babies that haven't eaten grains yet, and who have inherited a healthy gut flora. And even in this situation, their grains would have to be fermented, AND taken in much more moderate amounts (e.g. 2-3 slices of bread per week, no more than that, no pizza, no pasta, no cakes). But for us who are old enough to be able to read this article, it's already too late, and Mrs Fallon's advice on glutenous grains is not good anymore.

Finally, Paleo is not anti-salt, so I don't know where that came from. Dairy is not 30k years old, it's 10k. Neither is Paleo lean-meats only. I think Mrs Fallon has read only Cordain's OLD book. A lot has changed since then in our understanding of human nutrition.

AnnRein
AnnRein

It's not just that grains are industrial, GMO and everything else that's wrong with it.  It's grown and harvested improperly, too.  We need to get back to growing real food well....

IvorGoodbody
IvorGoodbody

@JeffryGerberMD Qs of this type r sterile. What matters isn't whether a food is Paleo but whether it's good for you & in what qual\/quantity

WilliamLynch
WilliamLynch

Oh my, I basically follow a WAPF diet, and appreciate Sally's work, but this is just BAD. Paleo is not defined by lack of metals! Dairy is not 30,000 years old! What the hell?

WilliamLynch
WilliamLynch

Oh my, I basically follow a WAPF diet, and appreciate Sally's work, but this is just BAD. Paleo is not defined by lack of metals! Dairy is not 30,000 years old! What the hell?

JamiePaleo
JamiePaleo

I also don't understand the add it back slowly and see if symptoms arise. Most of this stuff is asymptomatic or just going on behind the scenes and you don't realize it's going on till years later. Kinda like eating sweet-tarts. You could eat them for a week or years and feel great and not realize you are beating your insulin response to a pulp.

Westernrosella
Westernrosella

Didn't Loren Cordain advocate lean meat in his original paleo diet book? I think he has come around to the benefits of saturated fat now and I have spoken with paleo eaters who will only eat lean meat. I think if you can't afford the organic, grass fed meats then the cafo stuff you need to eat lean. 
I think people do well to go paleo initially to get out of the habit of relying on such a high carb, highly refined diet as well as fixing up AI issues. I would imagine many who start out paleo eventually relax on the grains and legumes but compromise by eating them the WAPF way - properly prepared and not too often.
It should always be a learning curve :-)

JuliaSkinner
JuliaSkinner

I can only hope the interviewer got confused considering most paleo stuff I have read has glorified the Western Price Diet. Cutting out all grains and dairy is important if you have an intolerance but there are plenty of Paleo folks that eat rice and raw milk. Bone broth and suet rules. 

RyanTrebilcock
RyanTrebilcock

Paleo has a HEAVY emphasis on saturated fats. The "lean meats" is usually a compromise to get people to try it out for 30 days or so and see how they feel. If they like it, they do more research and find that saturated fats aren't the devil. I, myself, eat mostly eggs, bacon, and steak. The paleo diet has helped me to control symptoms of my autoimmune disease; idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura. 

Susanlimbaugh
Susanlimbaugh

I'm shocked that the head of this organization has written such a poorly written article. She contradicts herself  throughout the article. She establishes that the grains eaten early on were WILD, with some farming. Obviously whatever farming was done at that time is not the equivalent of modern day farming. She then states that this is the third generation of children being raised on low fat/low cholesterol diets! What?! She is clearly not talking about American children, where diabetes is on the rise due to their eating habits. She references that the GAPs diet is often maintained for TWO YEARS before the gut heals. That's true. After two years on the GAPs diet it is recommended you add in grains or dairy and see how they are tolerated. Then she states the paleo diet doesn't emphasize  saturated fat. Yes it does. She says that we should get our saturated fat from grains, which are not a good source of saturated fat.  She has so much misinformation in this article.  She also has no references.  Susan R. Limbaugh MD


TrudyJamesRogers
TrudyJamesRogers

I've eaten a WAP/Paleo diet for nearly a year now, and I am a member of the WAPF. I have read through these comments, and it seems to me that the Paleo people commenting on here have never heard of the Paleo endorsement of lean meats and no salt. That's strange, because I've come across that several times. In fact, the CrossFit gym I'm going to now lists lean meats as part of their recommended diet on their website. No thank you! My diet is very high in fat, including animal fat (grassfed, of course). Another issue I've had with Paleo is that there is a lot of nut eating with rarely any emphasis on properly preparing the nuts for consumption. I do eat nuts, but they are always properly soaked/sprouted. I also consume a lot of raw, grassfed dairy; it is the one thing I would never go without (well, that and my fermented cod liver oil). If I were stranded on an island, it'd better be a luscious grass island with dairy cows! Lol!

fzgplbb
fzgplbb

@FoodRiotRadio i recently heard about "paleo diet" stuff a few months ago. so this is great article of clarification.

Natural Living Mamma
Natural Living Mamma

Most paleo dieters I know focus on eating real whole foods that make your body feel good. Some drink whole fat raw milk, some don't because they can't properly digest it. Same with the grains. All paleo dieters I know eat a lot of good, high quality saturated fat and plenty of salt. I have no idea where she thinks those are limited in some form of paleo. Also, potatoes are only one form of tuber. They are a night shade and many people do not digest them well. There are hundreds of other tubers out there that we can eat with no issues. I was hoping the leader of such a big and well known organization like WAPF would be more educated in nutrition moralities that are so simpler to her own and take a lot of knowledge and tradition from WAPF. 

Rachenty
Rachenty

@STL_Chris_H now this throws me into confusion. i'm going to eat a crumpet. totally paleo I see??

UTweeHorn
UTweeHorn

@johndurant The issue IMO is that it is easy to practice in a harmful manner, also depending on other lifestyle practices.

Melissa Hughes
Melissa Hughes

I have so many thoughts on this! One of my first thoughts, though, is how did she equate "Paleo" with no salt? Did I miss something? She really got quite a few aspects of Paleo wrong, not to mention making some HUGE generalizations in her interpretation/assessment of Weston A. Price's work. I was a little baffled by this one, honestly. I was not, by any means, expecting her to endorse Paleo, but I would have thought she would have been more accurate in her points, and sought to find commonalities, rather than division, since there are so many folks who live using both Paleo and WAPF principles. She REALLY got this one wrong, in my opinion (and the opinions of many others). I believe she did the whole real food community a HUGE disservice by speaking so ignorantly about Paleo and how it may or may not contrast to WAPF “principles”/ideas. I specifically did not like that she incorrectly asserted that people who are eating "paleo"/Primal/real food/etc are trying to emulate Paleolithic man. I know of no Paleo figures I personally respect who have ever tried to argue we are supposed to be eating like Paleolithic man. All of them acknowledge, that doing so just isn't possible, or realistic, or necessary. My personal favorite way of looking at it (and explaining it to others), is encouraging people to get REALLY honest about what is *actually* "biologically appropriate” for their unique body and health status (which, obviously, changes with time and inputs). I think most rational people in the Paleo world would agree, if you can tolerate dairy, more power to you, especially if it is raw (and, ideally, you would limit consumption far beyond the excesses of the Standard American Diet). I was/am personally a fan of WAPF principles, and have been since before I “found” Paleo (which i used to resolve autoimmune issues and have found better health than I have ever known in the process). While I have been a fan of WAPF for years, and had Nourishing Traditions for several years, I never made the time to implement the theories about “properly preparing” grains and choosing raw milk/dairy products. However, that background definitely prepared me to feel like "Paleo" (still hate the word) makes COMPLETE sense, when I did finally learn about it. Moving forward, I am curious about raw milk/dairy (and whether my body will, eventually, tolerate it, or not). So are many other folks in the Paleo community. I could, also, at some point, WAY down the line, see TRYING a very few "properly prepared" grains. (I do now eat, and tolerate well,"eco-farmed", Non-GMO, white/arborio rice, made into risotto using homemade bone broth....once, every month or two…) That said, the way I see it, either way, if you are going to all the trouble to "properly prepare" grains, provided your body actually tolerates them, you would still not want to eat them every meal, or very often, just due to the preparation involved. I see this is as a *potential*, in season, "special occasion", VERY MINOR, addition to the "regular diet" of quality animal proteins, fats and veggies, with maybe (?) a few nuts, seeds and berries. It's funny this was posted today, because a few weeks ago, someone posted, somewhere on Facebook, a picture of Sally Fallon, next to a picture of some super hot, 70 year old vegan advocate, with the incorrect caption of something to the effect of "Why would you want to go Paleo and look like this (Sally), when you can be vegan and look like this (whoever the vegan was)”. I dismissed it, at the time, since whoever made/circulated it wasn't even intelligent enough to know that Sally Fallon is the Weston A. Price Foundation "leader", and has nothing to do with Paleo. This is not going to sound "nice”, but I did think, at that time, that whoever was making the graphic couldn’t have picked a worse “representative” for Paleo (whether they were correct or not). If you put a picture of Sally Fallon next to a picture of Nora Gedgaudas/RobbWolf/Diane Sanfillippo/Loren Cordain/Mark Sisson, etc, etc. I think I know what nutritional views I would be more inclined to "trust". I personally think, just from looking at pictures of Sally Fallon, that she does not appear to have the healthiest frame, and seems to carry extra weight AND inflammation. I recognize that look, from when I sported it myself. Now that I know what it is like NOT to carry extra weight and inflammation, I don't find that “look” "healthy", or in line with *my* (revised) opinion of "normal". I truly mean that with all due respect to Sally Fallon, WAPF, and her work. I really appreciate her work advocating real food, traditional preparations, etc. I think she COMPLETELY missed the boat on this, and I am pretty baffled as to how she could have possibly gotten it SO wrong.

ag10018
ag10018

@Ed_ Honestly, there is so much wrong with the assessment of how Paleo eaters eat in this article, I wouldn't even know where to START to address all the inaccuracies! There is some STRANGE POLITICAL OR PERSONAL reason that Ms Fallon has taken issue with Paleo and ONLY pointed to one outdated book that most Paleo eaters haven't even read (or agree with). So. How can one take an article like this seriously when almost everything in it is UNTRUE? I so wish the writer had taken the time to look into some facts and some blogs happening in the NOW. Most people who adopt Paleo are doing so because they are already sick from eating grains and dairy and processed food - this is literally our last resort. That is what led us to it. So milk is absolutely fine for a Paleo meal plan...but most of us are already intolerant because of food issues created from poor diet (ie: I had undiagnosed Celiac, so I cannot tolerate ANY dairy or grains), so we simply don't incorporate it (in the hopes that we can reincorporate it later). Salt? No issue whatsoever that I have heard of, other than add it to anything with joy! (celtic sea salt is best). And fats? That appears to be almost the BASIS of this way of eating from all the recipe blogs I follow....using high quality animal fats. I never make eggs without dipping into the fat from the bacon and putting that in the pan first. I use Ghee for everything else and lard when I've got high quality. And meat? I have never, ever been encouraged or directed toward LEAN MEATS. Quite the opposite. Get good, local grass fed and ENJOY the fat. Get high quality local chickens who roam...and ENJOY the skin. Seriously, I just don't get where the references in this article come from. And if it's all from this Cordain book, well, no Paleo eater I know is being guided by it. Paleo has evolved into a whole food movement based on eating healthily grown foods, eating the entire animal, and utilizing the power of healthy fats. Ms Fallon needs to do some more research before she lashes out at the one group that has probably single handedly sent her more members than anyone else on the planet! Now there's a twist!

AnnRein
AnnRein

@fitnesskelly In what way did she step on anyone?  She didn't.  She's explaining that we have been eating grains - but eating them properly (naturally)  grown and prepared.  Cutting out huge swathes of food doesn't make you healthier, it limits you.  I know, I can feel the flamethrowers, but this war on grains is very ill conceived. 

daveliepmann
daveliepmann

@jackrusher Interview transcribed to "article" is suboptimal. Not the most well-structured or precise argument.

TrudyJamesRogers
TrudyJamesRogers

@Susanlimbaugh

1. I don't think Sally Fallon wrote this. It is an interview with Sally Fallon, and the article was written by Sara Burrows.

 2. She never says that a paleolithic person's eating of grains is equivalent with modern day farming. "In addition to growing in the wild – or at least being cultivated naturally...".WAPF is very much against "modernized" foods, whether it be from poor farming practices, improper preparation, or genetic modification. 

3. American children DO eat a low fat, low cholesterol diet, and, yes, those eating habits do contribute to their lack of health. Think, margarine, reduced fat dairy, and canola oils instead of butter, full fat dairy, and beef tallow. 

4. I have read many, many "Paleo" recommendation that advise consumption of lean dairy.

 5. I'm not sure what the writer meant when saying "Grains are also a readily available source of minerals, which are liberated during the soaking process, and saturated fat, she said." I think it was just an awkward wording that was meant to state the fact that your body converts the carbs from grains into saturated fat when there is a deficiency. The author goes on to say "Because it’s not always possible to get enough saturated fat from meat, grain is – and almost always has been – an important supplement for most human beings, she said." and "The emphasis on “lean” protein combined with the lack of dairy and carbohydrates – which the body converts to saturated fat – is “a recipe for serious illness” in the long run".

 6. I am not seeing any misinformation in this article, and I wouldn't expect there to be any sources because it's an interview.

In general to no one specific: I know that not all "Paleo diets" advise eating lean meats, but they are out there, and I've never read any Paleo book that didn't advise against eating grains and potatoes. I'm not saying there aren't any, but I've read several that all say the same thing. If you've read enough Paleo literature, I'm sure you've come to the conclusion, as I have, that there is a lot of conflicting information. The more you understand about food, nutrients, our bodies, farming, and preparation techniques, the more you will come to believe that what may seem to be subtle discrepancies in Paleo advice may actually turn out to be of drastic importance. For those people who are getting the message that fatty meats, grains, and tubers are on the "NO" list, then this article may prove to be invaluable. Those who already know to eat saturated meats and so forth, good for you. Why knock Sally for trying to clear up some things?

Evelyn
Evelyn

@TrudyJamesRogers Trudy, for my own benefit can you please detail what fermented cod liver oil you take?

DaveB1
DaveB1

@Melissa Hughes 

Excellent response Melissa. This is disheartening that there is such a discontention between Sally's way and paleo. I'm a strong advocate for whole foods styles focusing on similarities rather than differences. She seems to confuse paleo with only Cordain's obsolete version. I'm sorry but I cannot stand his take on it. He is the Freud of paleo. Paleo is his baby but it took later innovators to make it more dynamic and doable. That "lean meat" thing is nothing but a ploy to sell paleo to the uninitiated who would be afraid to spend extra for pasture raised/grass fed meats. I actually dislike lean meats. I love fatty meats tremendously more.

Another thing about the WAP's dairy emphasis is that it misses people such as myself who have a lifelong aversion to anything dairy. Cheese especially. I avoid all dairy except for occasional butter. It's very easy to just get the vast majority of nutrients from meats if one eats meat with fatty tissue, bones, skin, broth, organs. That potato thing of Cordain's is also crap. I love potatoes and eat them daily. Even dreaded white potatoes. I also crave starchy veggies such as beets and squash over fibrous veggies which don't digest well. 

Preparing grains would be nice but it's extremely inaccessible to accomplish and they are not that nutrient dense. 

Seriously, why this gulf between the approaches? Whole foods is just a matter of experimentation with rough guidelines. After a while one develops enough self-knowledge to go about it their own way. There is no need to cling to external rules. 

Amber
Amber

@Melissa Hughes I totally agree with you! I can't believe how much misinformation about Paleo was in this article!

johndurant
johndurant

@OneTwoThree8 be nice. but I will say, between AHS, CrossFit Games, and WAPF conference, the people looked least healthy at WAPF

EugeniaL
EugeniaL

@AnnRein @fitnesskelly I explained the reasons why grains are bad. Modern adults don't have the stomach anymore to be able to process these modern varieties of glutenous grains. The war on these modern grains, is justified, and no amount of fermentation will ever make them better. I'm not against grains 100% (I eat some non-gluten grains rarely), but for me, there are four conditions to be able to eat them without ill effects:

1. The individual must have a healthy gut flora. No one, and I mean, NO ONE in the Western world has a good gut flora. Read research on the subject, we're all altered and sick. The problem mostly started happening with the Industrial Revolution (when many of the "modern" illnesses were born), and  each generation got worse, with the mother passing the wrong gut flora to their baby. It's an accumulative effect and it's well documented. Again, read research. Adults today have already been so sick, that it makes no sense whatsoever for them to eat grains. That's why the Paleo diet became so popular outside its weight loss moniker  because it fixed people's ailments. Mainly due to grains.

2. The grains must be fermented for a long time. No counter-argument there.

3. The amount of grains eaten must still be minimal. Right now, people eat bagels for breakfast, pizza with breadsticks for lunch, and pasta with bread for dinner. And the process repeats the next day. This simply has to stop. This is nothing but wheat with wheat, day in, day out. It is NOT healthy, not even if that was veggies and fruits. Staples are BAD. It's just common sense. We're supposed to be eating extreme variety, not having staples. A few bread slices a week wouldn't hurt, among healthy individuals, if the bread was properly fermented. But not the way we use grains today, being a staple.

4. The grains must come from ancient varieties. The type of wheat we use today, dwarf wheat, it was invented in the '50s. It's highly toxic, and it's impossible to digest properly, because it has insane amounts of gluten in it (because that's what bakers wanted). No long term studies were done to it before they gave it out for consumption. The only cared about its higher yields! So, if you bring back things like einkorn, spelt, and maybe farro/emmer, things wouldn't be so bad. But don't expect fluffy bread either, these ancient varieties create coarse results, because that's how real grain consumption was supposed to be.

So there you have it. If you fix these 4 reasons, then sure, I might try a slice of bread. But without it, I won't go near it, not even with a gun in my head. And no, I'm not overreacting. I've read a lot about all that, and thought deeply about the problem since Paleo saved my life in Sept 2011.

jackrusher
jackrusher

@daveliepmann The 30kybp dairy claim without context is bad, and when "grains" includes maize and sweet potatoes...

ccn
ccn

@TrudyJamesRogers @Susanlimbaugh #4 above ???    Everything I have ever read about Paleo says if you're going to eat dairy, you eat FULL FAT dairy, and preferably raw.   Low fat dairy is processed, unnatural, and definitely NOT paleo.

Susanlimbaugh
Susanlimbaugh

@TrudyJamesRogers @Susanlimbaugh Hi Trudy,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a closer look at the article. My gut reaction was that it was very chaotic and misleading. Thanks for pointing out that it was an interview. I agree there is so much conflicting information. I'm continually seeking the bottom line truth, and it's hard to figure out. I will take another look. Can you tell me where you got the information about children being brought up on low fat diets. Thanks again. 

Susan

P.S. I would love to eat some grains!! I try to stay very strict on my diet because I have MS. How do you feel about foods like buckwheat and quinoa, which are technically seeds?

TrudyJamesRogers
TrudyJamesRogers

@Evelyn

Absolutely! I take Blue Ice brand by Green Pasture. You can find it at www.greenpasture.org. As far as I've always heard, they are the ONLY company in the US that makes cod liver oil using this traditional method. They also make the high vitamin butter oil using the method described by Dr. Weston A. Price.

As far as the cod liver oil, I take the unflavored liquid. Some people cannot tolerate the taste, but there are also mixtures and capsules. I also take their butter oil and fermented skate liver oil. Their website provides lots of information such as recommended dosage and ways to take.

OneTwoThree8
OneTwoThree8

@johndurant However, the organization seems to be a New Age magnet for some reason, which is neither here nor there, I suppose.

Carneiros85
Carneiros85

@Susanlimbaugh

Everyone is different.  You should try them properly prepared* in small quantities and see what happens.  If you don't experience negative effects, gradually increase how much you eat.

*Soaked, possibly sprouted, and cooked in bone broth with lots of grass-fed butter!

OneTwoThree8
OneTwoThree8

@OneTwoThree8 However, the organization seems to be a New Age magnet for some reason, which is neither here nor there, I suppose.